驻肯尼亚大使周平剑接受肯《星报》专访
The Star’s Interview with Chinese Ambassador to Kenya Zhou Pingjian
2022年3月4日
4 March 2022
记者：2020年9月你向肯雅塔总统递交国书时，正值新冠肺炎疫情十分严峻时期。你是如何看待中非、中肯抗疫合作的?
1. You presented your credentials on September 2, 2020 to President Uhuru Kenyatta. This was at the height of the Covid-19 outbreak, which almost affected Sino-African ties. How were you able to handle this and the disruption the pandemic caused on your interests in Kenya?
周平剑：中非永远是可靠朋友和真诚伙伴，遇到困难始终相互支持。疫情发生后，双方同舟共济、守望相助，谱写了团结抗疫的佳话。我们不会忘记肯尼亚朋友在中国抗疫最困难时刻给予的宝贵支持，将继续支持肯尼亚抗疫。团结携手，我们终将战胜疫情。
China and Africa are trustworthy friends and sincere partners forever. We have always supported each other in trying times. Our cooperation and mutual support in the fight against Covid represents a prime example of solidarity in the face of a disease. China will never forget the invaluable material and spiritual support from our Kenyan brothers and sisters when China faced its most difficult moment. China will continue to stand by Kenya in its fight against the virus. Pamoja tutashina.
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2. There were claims of racism at the time that almost disrupted the relations between China and Africa. How was this handled?
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As I said, we have always supported each other in trying times. And at the early stages, because the outbreak was a new thing to everybody, there might have been some misunderstandings. But with the deep-rooted friendship, our two sides quickly solved the misunderstanding.
记者：作为中国第17任驻肯尼亚大使，你如何评价当前两国关系?
3. You are the seventeenth Chinese ambassador to Kenya. How would you describe the status of Kenya and China relations now?
周平剑：中肯传统友谊深厚。早在600年前，中国航海家郑和就远航东非海岸，带来了友好和善意。1963年12月14日建交以来，两国平等伙伴关系强劲发展。特别是近年来，在习近平主席和肯雅塔总统战略指引下，中肯关系处于历史最好时期。双方各领域务实合作成果丰富，走在中非合作前列，给两国人民带来实实在在的好处。中肯已成为利益共同体和命运共同体。
China and Kenya share a profound tradition of friendship. As early as six hundred years ago, Zheng He, the legendary Chinese navigator, sailed to the East Africa coast with a message of friendship and goodwill. Since the establishment of diplomatic ties on December 14, 1963, two days after your Independence, China and Kenya have forged a strong partnership of equals, particularly in recent years. Under the strategic guidance of President Xi Jinping and President Uhuru Kenyatta, the China-Kenya relationship is in its best shape. Our fruitful and wide-ranging practical cooperation stands out in China-Africa cooperation, delivering solid benefits to the people of both countries. China and Kenya have become a community of shared interests and future
记者：你在递交国书时表示中国将继续支持肯尼亚的发展议程，特别是“2030年远景规划”和“四大发展目标”。请问疫情对这方面有何影响?
4. Upon presenting your credentials, you said China will continue supporting Kenya’s development agenda, particularly Vision 2030 and Big Four agenda projects. How has the pandemic affected this?
周平剑：我到任后实地走访了一些在建合作项目，比如孔扎科技城数据中心和智慧城市设施、内罗毕西环路、内罗毕快速路、内罗毕全球贸易中心、蒙巴萨油码头、阿西河工业园区等。这些项目克服疫情影响，进展都很顺利。在西环路施工现场，50名中方技术人员和1500名肯方员工日夜奋战保工期，令人印象深刻。蒙内铁路运营以来已服务乘客670万人次，我作为其中一员，去蒙巴萨时在列车上清晰远眺乞力马扎罗山，当时挺兴奋的。可以说，疫情挑战确实有，但合作仍在开展。
I’ve had the privilege to visit some ongoing projects since my arrival a year and half ago. Konza data center and smart city facilities. Nairobi western bypass. Nairobi expressway. GTC Nairobi. KOT in Mombasa. Industrial parks in Athi River. And others. They are doing very well in spite of the Covid challenge. On the construction site of the western bypass, I was so impressed that 50 Chinese technicians and their 1500 Kenyan colleagues are working day in and day out to deliver the project on time. As one of the 6.7 million SGR passengers served since its operation, I was thrilled to see Mt. Kilimanjaro while on my train trip to Mombasa. SGR safari, isn’t it? The pandemic challenge is real, yet cooperation carries on.
记者：今年初，肯尼亚和中国签署了多项协议，以落实两国全面战略合作伙伴关系。这一关系现状如何？
5. Early this year, Kenya and China signed various agreements to implement the Comprehensive Strategic Cooperation Partnership signed in 2018. What is the status of the partnership agreement?
周平剑：2013年8月和2017年5月肯雅塔总统访华期间，中肯关系定位两次提升。两国全面战略合作伙伴关系取得显著进展。前面提到的合作项目，我10年前在肯常驻时还都没有。展望未来，王毅国务委员兼外长年初访肯期间双方达成共识，中肯两国将在四个方面加强和深化伙伴关系：一是做坚定相互支持的伙伴，二是做加快发展振兴的伙伴，三是做促进中非团结的伙伴，四是做维护区域和平的伙伴。
China-Kenya relationship has upgraded twice, in August 2013 and May 2017 when President Kenyatta was visiting China. Remarkable progress has been made in our comprehensive strategic and cooperative partnership. I am an eye-witness. I was here in the Embassy between 2008 and 2011 [as deputy head of mission] and None of the cooperation projects I mentioned earlier was there at that time. Going forward, China and Kenya will strengthen and deepen our partnership in four respects, as agreed during State Councilor and Foreign Minister Wang Yi’s official visit to Kenya on January 5-6. First, we will be partners that firmly support each other. Second, we will be partners in accelerating development and revitalization. Third, we will be partners in promoting China-Africa solidarity. Fourth, we will be partners in maintaining regional peace. The cordial relationship between Kenya and China is in its best shape.
记者：肯尼亚外债增长引发喧闹和批评，许多外债是欠中国的。你对此有何回应?
6. There has been uproar or criticism over increased foreign debt, a lot of it owed to China. What is your reaction?
周平剑：这事沸沸扬扬，媒体没少炒作。我想强调三点。其一，肯尼亚从中方所借，在肯公共债务中占比不足10%，或者说，在肯外债中占比不足20%。中方并非肯尼亚最大的债主。其二，中方贷款用于支持具体项目，是双方平等协商、互利合作的结果。中肯融资合作的丰硕成果实实在在，有目共睹。其三，没有哪个发展中国家因为中国的贷款而陷入所谓的“债务陷阱”。所谓“债务陷阱”，实际上是那些想让非洲永远陷入“贫困陷阱”和“落后陷阱”的人制造的叙事陷阱。内源融资也好，外源融资也好，发展总是需要融资支持的。不能说只有西方国家过去提供的贷款是发展援助，而中国提供的贷款现在却被称为“债务陷阱”。
I understand this is a big issue, in the media in particular, and I wish to make three points here. One, Kenya owes less than 10% of its public debt, or, less than 20% of its foreign debt, to Chinese creditors. China is not the biggest lender to Kenya. Two, all the loans from China are project-specific based on equal-footed consultation and mutually beneficial cooperation. The fruitful and tangible outcomes of China-Kenya financing cooperation are solid there for all to see. Three, not a single developing country has ever fallen into the so-called “debt trap” because of Chinese loans. In fact, the so-called “debt trap” is a narrative trap created by those who wish to forever plunge Africa into a “poverty trap” and “backwardness trap”. Development takes financing support, internal or external. It cannot be said that only the loans provided by Western countries in the past were development aids, while these from China now are called “debt traps”.
记者：有些肯尼亚人担心肯中双方签署的项目合同密不可宣，比如蒙内铁路。为什么会这样?肯尼亚的国有资产会因贷款担保面临风险吗?
7. There have also been concerns among Kenyans about the secrecy of the Kenya-China contracts. SGR for instance. Why is this the case? And are any Kenyan parastatals at risk having guaranteed the loans?
周平剑：并没有什么密不可宣的问题，有些说法倒是令人难以理解。中方根据肯方需求和意愿，在力所能及的范围内为两国合作项目提供融资支持。作为朋友，我们只是做了朋友该做的事。中方不可能将任何贷款、任何合同强加于人，包括肯尼亚朋友。中国一贯秉持公开透明、平等互利原则，每一项资金支持都经过深入的可行性研究和市场化论证，所有贷款协议均由双方通过协商自愿签订，所谓中国金融机构扣押并接管肯方这些那些或任何国有资产，纯属恶意揣测，没有事实依据。事实上，没有一个中非合作项目因为债务问题被中方“接管”或“没收”。相信肯尼亚朋友会识破这些虚假信息。任何国家的发展权都不能被剥夺。
There is no secrecy issue here. As we see it and as the facts go, I am also struggling to understand the narrative. Our perspective is that in light of Kenya’s needs and requests, China has provided financing support to cooperation projects to the best of its capability. I want to stress here that China has no capacity to impose any loan, any contract on any country, including our Kenyan friends. We try to do our best in line with requests from our friends. That’s what friends are for. Moreover, China always follows the principle of openness, transparency, equality and mutual benefit. Every financial support goes through in-depth feasibility study and market-based assessment. All those loan agreements have been signed through consultation on a voluntary basis between both sides. The so-called allegation that China’s financial institution will seize this or that or any Kenyan parastatals is nothing but ill-intentioned speculation that has no factual grounds. In fact, not a single China-Africa cooperation project has been taken over or confiscated by China due to debt problems. I trust discerning Kenya friends will see through those misinformation or disinformation. No country can be denied the right to development.
记者：最近内罗毕全球贸易中心举行了亮灯仪式，你认为这会给肯尼亚的房地产市场带来什么?我们会看到更多这样的项目吗?
8. You recently launched the GTC Nairobi. What would you say it brings to Kenya’s property market, and will we see more these?
周平剑：作为内罗毕的新地标，全球贸易中心是中资企业在肯重大投资项目，充分体现出中方企业对肯尼亚的信心，也再次表明中肯携手同行、共同成长。
The Global Trade Center Nairobi Kenya is indeed GTCNK, Go Together China and Kenya, Grow Together China and Kenya. As a new landmark of the beautiful city in the sun, it speaks volumes about the confidence of the Chinese business community in Kenya.
记者：中非合作论坛第八届部长会去年11月29日至30日在塞内加尔达喀尔举行。你认为会议给非洲国家带来哪些好处？
9. The eighth Ministerial Conference of the Forum on China-Africa Cooperation was held on November 29 and 30 in Dakar, Senegal. What would you say were the wins for African states?
周平剑：论坛达喀尔会议取得圆满成功，我们高度赞赏肯方为此作出重要贡献。习近平主席在会上宣布中国将同非洲国家密切配合，在未来三年内共同实施卫生健康、减贫惠农、贸易促进、投资驱动、数字创新、绿色发展、能力建设、人文交流、和平安全等“九项工程”。中方将信守承诺，这是中非合作的一大特色。
The FOCAC conference achieved a full success. Kenya’s significant contribution to the conference is highly appreciated. In his keynote speech delivered through video link at the opening ceremony, President Xi announced that China will work closely with African countries to implement nine programs in the next three years to come, which are related to medical service and health, poverty reduction and agricultural development, trade and investment promotion, digital innovation, green development, capacity building, cultural and people-to-people exchange, and peace and security. China always honors its commitments, which is a distinctive feature in its cooperation with Africa.
记者：肯中双边贸易现状如何?还有哪些未充分利用的机遇?
What is the status of trade between Kenya and China, and which are the unexploited opportunities?
周平剑：2021年，肯尼亚对华出口达2.27亿美元，同比增长50.5%。中国并不追求对肯尼亚的贸易顺差，贸易结构是由市场力量决定的。根据“九项工程”之一的贸易促进工程，中国将为非洲农产品对华出口开放“绿色通道”，加快检验检疫程序，为支持非洲出口提供100亿美元贸易融资，争取3年内从非洲进口总额达到3000亿美元。这为中肯双边贸易带来巨大机遇。双方最近签署了肯尼亚新鲜牛油果和水产品对华出口协议。
Kenya’s export to China expanded 50.5% year on year to 227 million US Dollars in 2021. China doesn’t pursue trade surplus with Kenya. The trade pattern is determined by market forces. Meanwhile, trade promotion program is one of the nine programs I mentioned earlier. China will open “green lanes” for African agricultural exports to China, speed up the inspection and quarantine procedures, provide 10 billion US dollars of trade finance to support African export, in a bid to reach 300 billion US dollars in total imports from Africa in three years (2022-24). Opportunities abound for our bilateral trade. Recently, we signed the protocols facilitating Kenya’s fresh avocados and aquatic products exports to Chinese market.
记者：作为大使，你希望将来留下什么样的成果?你目前最看重的领域和成就有些什么?
Finally, what would you want your legacy as ambassador to look like? What are your priority areas and achievements so far?
周平剑：中国和肯尼亚都是重要发展中国家。发展是民生之本。面对疫情的严重冲击，落实联合国2030年可持续发展议程面临新挑战，中国现代化建设和肯尼亚实施“2030年远景规划”、“四大发展目标”也面临新挑战。与此同时，蓬勃发展的工业革命、数字经济、绿色发展以及新冠疫情带来的新业态和商业模式为发展中国家实现跨越式发展带来了机遇。我们应当加强发展合作，更好实现互利共赢。中非合作论坛“九项工程”和习近平主席去年提出的全球发展倡议的八大优先领域高度契合。全球发展倡议的优先领域包括减贫、粮食安全、抗疫和疫苗、发展筹资、气候变化和绿色发展、工业化、数字经济、互联互通，为应对国际形势变化描绘了蓝图，为全球共同发展和国际发展合作指明了方向。相信中肯友谊与合作必将不断发展壮大。
Both China and Kenya are major developing countries. Development holds the key to people’s well-being. Facing the severe shocks of the pandemic, the implementation of the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development is confronted with new challenges, so are China’s modernization drive and Kenya’s Big Four Agenda and Vision 2030. At the same time, the burgeoning industrial revolution and the new forms of businesses and models brought by digital and green development as well as the pandemic have created opportunities for leapfrog development for developing countries. We need to strengthen our development cooperation for greater mutual benefit. There is a lot of synergy between the FOCAC nine programs and the eight priority areas identified by the Global Development Initiative, which was put forward by President Xi last year. The GDI, with its priority areas including poverty alleviation, food security, Covid-19 and vaccines, financing for development, climate change and green development, industrialization, digital economy, and connectivity, has set out a blueprint for rising up to the changing international landscape, and charts the course for global common development and international development cooperation. I am fully convinced that the friendship and cooperation between China and Kenya will go from strength to strength.