驻欧盟使团团长张明大使接受BBC采访谈当前香港事态

Ambassador Zhang Ming Speaks to BBC on the Situation in Hong Kong

 

2019年8月9日

9 August 2019

 

BBC: How do you see the situation now in Hong Kong?

BBC：您如何看待当前香港局势？

 

Ambassador: I think it’s extreme violence, not peaceful demonstration. Some radicals defaced the national emblem and flag, stored explosives, set fire on public buildings, smashed cars, and so on. So this is law-breaking. Should the “chaos” and “violence” continue, prosperity and stability in Hong Kong would be put to ruins. And so would “One Country, Two Systems”. The top priority at the moment is to stop violence and chaos and restore law and order.

张大使：这是极端暴力，同和平示威游行无关。一些极端分子侮辱国旗国徽，存储爆炸物，实施纵火，打砸车辆等。这些是严重违法行为。如果任由这种“暴”和“乱”持续下去，势必毁掉“一国两制”，毁掉香港的繁荣稳定。香港当前最重要的任务就是止暴制乱、恢复秩序。

 

BBC: You say that. But certainly earlier in these protests some two million people were taking to the streets. That’s a quarter of the population of Hong Kong. That’s a significant number of people dissatisfied with the way in which the territory is being run.

BBC：但此前有两百万人走上街头抗议，占香港总人口的四分之一，（说明）相当一部分人对香港当前的治理方式感到不满。

 

Ambassador: But now, as we saw, it is turning into riots and chaos. So we have to stop the chaos.

张大使：但我们看到的是，现在已经出现暴乱，暴乱必须得到制止。

 

BBC: You don’t say that violence is growing out of frustration by a younger generation of Hong Kongers, who weren’t even born when Hong Kong was returned by Britain to China, who feel that they want more control over their own destinies, and who perhaps have different aspirations than those who were around in 1997.

BBC：您是否认同，暴力是来自香港年轻一代的沮丧情绪？这些年轻人在香港回归时甚至还没出生，他们希望更多地掌控自身命运，与1997年（前出生的）的一代人诉求不同。

 

Ambassador: There are some people who are plotting behind the scenes and who are trying to use the youngsters as a political pawn, which is very dangerous. I believe that, as their real motives are laid bare, more and more young people would come to realize this and change course.

张大使：有些人躲在幕后操纵，把青年人当做他们政治图谋的棋子和炮灰。我相信，随着幕后操纵者逐渐暴露，越来越多的青年人会看清他们的面目，迷途知返。

 

BBC: This week, Head of Chinese Hong Kong and Macao Affairs Office Mr Zhang Xiaoming told reporters, and I quote, that if the situation worsens further, and there’s turmoil that the Hong Kong government is unable to control, the Central Government will absolutely not just watch without doing anything. Could you maybe expand on that?

BBC：本周国务院港澳办主任张晓明对记者表示，如果形势继续恶化下去，在香港政府无法控制局面的情况下，中央政府绝对不会坐视不管。您能就此展开谈一下吗？

 

Ambassador: As we know, Hong Kong is part of China. All Chinese people, including people in Hong Kong, treasure and uphold peace and stability in the Hong Kong SAR. The Chinese people would not allow the situation to get out of control. According to the Basic Law, the Central Government has sufficient means and capabilities to maintain stability and prosperity and a peaceful life for people in Hong Kong, and to safeguard the “One Country, Two Systems”.

张大使：众所周知，香港是中国的一部分。包括香港人在内的所有中国人民都珍视和维护香港特区的和平与稳定，不会允许局势失控。根据《基本法》，中央政府有足够多的办法、足够强大的力量维护香港稳定繁荣及“一国两制”。

 

BBC: Are you referring here to the possible deployment of the People’s Liberation Army in Hong Kong?

BBC： 您是否意指（中央政府）可能在香港使用军队？

 

Ambassador: The Central Government, as I mentioned, has sufficient means and capabilities to maintain Hong Kong’s stability and prosperity.

张大使：正如我刚才所说，中央政府有足够多的办法、足够强大的力量维护香港稳定繁荣。

 

BBC: But does the Central Government in Beijing have any red line when it comes to maintaining stability? You yourself have been speaking about the chaos and violence in Hong Kong.

BBC：在维护稳定方面，中央政府是否有红线？

 

Ambassador: In any country, any society, such chaos and riots are not allowed. So that is the red line.

张大使：任何国家和社会都不会容许暴乱，这就是红线。

 

BBC: So the red line has been crossed already according to you.

BBC：按照您的意思，这条红线已经突破了？

 

Ambassador: I think some rioters are touching (the red line).

张大使：我认为那些暴徒正在触碰这条红线。

 

BBC: So the protesters, in your view, are getting very close to crossing that red line, which would then prompt the Central Government to send in the People’s Liberation Army.

BBC：所以在您看来，示威者非常接近逾越红线，可能促使中央政府派出军队？

 

Ambassador: I think some people are acting very dangerously. They are violating the Basic Law and ruining the order and system in Hong Kong. So they are playing fire.

张大使：一些人的行为非常危险，他们违反了《基本法》，破坏香港的秩序和制度，这些人正在玩火。

 

BBC: How important is it to your government to maintain the “One Country, Two Systems”?

BBC：对于中国政府来讲，维护“一国两制”有多重要？

 

Ambassador: That’s the basic policy for the Central Government and the Hong Kong SAR. We will try our best to safeguard the “One Country, Two Systems”.

张大使：“一国两制”是中央政府对港基本方针政策，我们将尽最大努力维护好“一国两制”。

 

BBC: Because a couple of years ago, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said in uncertain terms that the “One Country, Two Systems” was not binding on Beijing. It was only, and I quote, “a historical document that lacked practical significance”.

BBC：几年前，中国外交部以一种比较模糊的方式表示，“一国两制”对中国政府不再具有约束力，认为（《中英联合声明》）只是历史文件，没有现实意义。

 

Ambassador: At the moment Hong Kong was handed over in 1997, the British rights and obligations under the document were fulfilled. Now, Britain has no sovereignty, no jurisdiction, and no right of supervision over Hong Kong.

张大使：随着1997年香港回归，联合声明中所规定的与英方有关的权利和义务已经全部履行完毕。英方对回归后的香港一无主权，二无治权，三无监督权。

 

BBC: So China could tear up that joint declaration at any time? They could say, “Sorry, the ‘One Country, Two Systems’ no longer exists. We are not interested in it.”

BBC：中国是否会随时撕毁《中英联合声明》？你们可以说，“抱歉，‘一国两制’不存在了，我们对此不再感兴趣。”

 

Ambassador: We’ll try our best to safeguard the “One Country, Two Systems”.

张大使：我们将竭尽全力维护“一国两制”。

 

BBC: Why? Why should you?

BBC：为什么？

 

Ambassador: This is for the interest of Hong Kong, for the interest of China, and for the interest of people all over China.

张大使：因为这符合香港的利益，符合中国的利益，符合全体中国人民的利益。

 

BBC: Are you worried, Ambassador, about the possibility of what might be described as “contagion” that these pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong might spread to the Chinese mainland? What the people are asking for in Hong Kong, which is a greater say in the election of their leaders, might be copied in China itself.

BBC：您是否担心香港“支持民主”的抗议活动存在“传染”到大陆的可能性？香港民众要求更多选举权，这种诉求会不会复制到大陆？

 

Ambassador: The people in Hong Kong are asking for stopping “riots” and “chaos” in Hong Kong. And no one would allow such acts to spread into the mainland.

张大使：香港人民要求的是停止“暴”和“乱”，任何人都不会允许“暴”和“乱”传到中国其他地方。

 

BBC: But you’re worried that might happen.

BBC：所以您担心这种情况也许会发生？

 

Ambassador: No worry.

张大使：我对此毫不担心。

 

BBC: Ambassador, thank you very much!

BBC：谢谢您接受BBC采访。