双语:崔天凯大使出席2020年阿斯彭安全论坛实录(上)
发布时间:2020年09月11日
发布人:nanyuzi  

Transcript of Ambassador Cui Tiankai’s Interview at the 2020 Aspen Security Forum

崔天凯大使出席2020年阿斯彭安全论坛实录

 

10 August 2020

2020年8月10日


On August 4, Ambassador Cui Tiankai was invited to attend the 2020 Aspen Security Forum and had an online interview with Mr. Nicholas Burns, Executive Director of the Aspen Strategy Group, and Andrea Mitchell, Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent of NBC News, on issues related to China-US relations. The Ambassador also answered questions from the audience. The full transcript is as follows:

8月4日,崔天凯大使应邀出席2020年阿斯彭安全论坛,就中美关系有关问题与阿斯彭战略小组执行主任尼古拉斯·伯恩斯以及美国全国广播公司对外政策首席记者安德利亚·米歇尔进行在线对话,并回答观众提问。全文实录如下:


Nicholas Burns: You’re most welcome here, Ambassador. I’m going to turn this interview over to Andrea Mitchell. But I just make one point that I was beginning to make with Andrea when we were waiting. I think that US-China relations may be at their lowest point, since before President Nixon’s opening to China in 1971, 1972. There is great concern in the United States about the Chinese government abrogating its commitments to the people of Hong Kong, concern about the conflict along the border between India and China at the Himalayas, concern about Chinese activities in the South China Sea. You and I have been part of this relationship from a government perspective for many, many decades. It seems to me that we’re turning away from the cooperation, the large-scale cooperation of the last 40 years, decidedly towards competition, in the military sense, over economic issues, on 5G. And the question I have for Andrea and you and for your interview is, as we compete with each other and we’re certainly competing, can we find a way to cooperate on climate change, on the pandemic and other big global issues?

伯恩斯:崔大使,谨向您致以最热烈的欢迎。在把采访转交给安德利亚·米歇尔之前,我想阐述一点想法。我认为美中关系可能处于1971年、1972年尼克松总统打开中国大门以来的最低点。在美国,人们对中国政府放弃其对香港人民的承诺、印度与中国在喜马拉雅山地区发生边界冲突,以及中国在南海的活动感到非常关切。几十年以来,你和我都在政府中参与美中关系相关工作。在我看来,我们正在脱离近40年来的合作轨道,朝竞争方向迈进,包括在军事、经济、5G问题上。我对安德利亚、您和你们的采访提出的问题是,我们在竞争的同时(我们当然在竞争),能否找到就应对气候变化、疫情和其他重大全球性问题的合作之路?


Andrea Mitchell: Thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Ambassador. It’s a great privilege and an honor to have you joining us today. And I want to pick up where Ambassador Burns set the table, which is that most people do believe, in both of our countries, that this is the most difficult time, I was going to say, since 1979. But certainly Nick Burns just said, really, since Henry Kissinger’s trip in 1971. So is there a way, first, do you agree that this is a perilous situation? And how would you correct it, or do you think it needs to be corrected?

米歇尔:非常感谢。谢谢您,大使先生。我们对您能参加今天的活动深感荣幸。我想从尼克·伯恩斯提出的问题开始对话。我们两国大多数人都确信,现在是最困难的时期。我曾说,这是1979年以来最困难的时期。但伯恩斯刚才说,可以从基辛格博士1971年访华算起,真是这样。是否有途径可以……首先,您同意这是一种危险的形势吗?您认为应如何扭转这种形势,或者您是否认为这种形势应被扭转?


Ambassador Cui: First of all, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to have this conversation. We are at a very critical moment for our relations between China and United States. In a way, we can say it’s unprecedented since Dr. Henry Kissinger’s visit almost half a century ago. The choices we’re making today will shape not only relations between our two great countries, but also the future of the world. So we have to make the right choices. We have to base ourselves on the long-term interests of our two peoples and of the world.

崔大使:首先,非常感谢有机会进行这次交谈。当前中美关系处于非常关键的时刻。某种意义上,可以说这是近半个世纪前基辛格博士访华以来前所未有的。我们今天正在进行的抉择,不仅将真正决定我们两个大国之间的关系,也将塑造世界的未来。因此,我们必须基于我们两国人民和世界的长远利益作出正确抉择。


Andrea Mitchell: A big source of the current tension, from the US perspective and others around the world, is the pandemic. The President has been blaming China for not alerting the World Health Organization soon enough to the human-to-human transmission of COVID-19, and doing more to contain it. How would you respond to that criticism?

米歇尔:从美国和世界其他国家的角度看,造成当前紧张局势的一大原因在于疫情。特朗普总统指责中国未及时向世界卫生组织通报新冠病毒人传人的情况,未能作出足够的努力遏制疫情。您对这一批评如何回应?


Ambassador Cui: I think we have to base ourselves on real facts. The fact is very clear. The timeline is very clear. China is one of the countries that reported such cases first. But now there are increasing reports and information about possible earlier cases elsewhere in the world.

崔大使:我认为,我们必须基于真正的事实。事实非常清楚,时间线非常清楚。中国是最早报告新冠肺炎病例的国家之一,但是现在越来越多的报告和信息显示,世界其他地区可能有更早的病例。


Scientists all over the world are still working very hard on this particular pandemic, on the virus. But we identified a few cases in Wuhan in late December last year. And even for the doctors, people like to call them “whistleblowers”, they say they have encountered some cases of pneumonia of unknown cause, which means at the time little was known about this new virus. Very few people, I think nobody in the world knew anything about the new virus. But as soon as we had these cases, we reported to the World Health Organization.

全世界的科学家还在围绕疫情和这种病毒努力工作。去年12月底,我们在武汉发现了几个病例。但即便那些医生——人们喜欢称他们为“吹哨人”——也说,他们遇到了一些不明原因肺炎病例。这表明,当时人们对这种新病毒知之甚少。那时很少有人、世界上甚至没有人对这种新病毒有任何了解。但我们一发现这些病例,立刻就向世卫组织做了报告。


The first report was done on January 3, right after the New Year’s Day. So it’s just a couple of days. Then the next day, the CDCs, Chinese CDC and US CDC, had their first communication on this particular virus, even before people could give a name to this COVID-19 virus. People were still calling it pneumonia of unknown cause. Then on January 12, as soon as we identified the genome sequence of this virus, we shared it with the WHO and the international community. So everything was done very quickly.

1月3日,新年刚过,我们就进行了首次报告,那时距离最初发现病例仅几天时间。1月4日,中国疾控中心同美国疾控中心就这一病毒进行了首次交流,时间甚至早于新冠病毒正式命名,当时人们仍称其为不明原因肺炎。1月12日,我们在确定新冠病毒的基因序列后,立刻同世卫组织和国际社会分享。可见,每件事做得都非常迅速。


Of course people are still learning more, still trying to learn more about this virus. I don’t think we already know everything about this virus. This is a fact. But as soon as we discovered something, we shared it with the international community. This is also the fact. And at that time, when we first reported to the WHO, when we first shared all this information with the international community, you still had single-digit number of cases in the United States.

当然,人们仍在努力对这种病毒有更多认识,我们并未对它了如指掌,这是事实。但只要我们发现些什么,就立刻与国际社会分享,这也是事实。在我们首次向世界卫生组织报告时,在我们首次与国际社会分享所有这些信息时,美国的病例数量只有几个而已。


Andrea Mitchell: That is certainly correct. But did you report human-to-human transmission is the question. Because you did share the DNA, the sequencing, but did you share human-to-human transmission in the most timely way that you could have?

米歇尔:这当然是对的。但问题是,你们报告人传人现象了吗?你们的确分享了病毒基因组序列,但你们尽可能及时地分享人传人的信息了吗?


Ambassador Cui: Yes, indeed, I think this is extremely important for our response to the virus. That’s why we sent our national experts to Wuhan, to determine whether this is transmitted among human beings. And once they determined that this is transmitted among human beings, we had Wuhan locked down. Within a couple of days, we locked down the whole city of about 12 million people. So everybody knew that this is transmittable among human beings. And within two or three days, the United States evacuated its consulate from Wuhan. So everyone knew this is very dangerous.

崔大使:当然。这的确对我们及时应对疫情极其重要。这就是为什么我们派我国的专家去武汉,以确定病毒是否存在人传人现象的原因。一旦我们确定了存在人传人现象,我们就对武汉进行了封城。两三天之内,我们就对武汉这座1200万人口的城市进行了封城。这是因为,大家都知道了这是一种能够人传人的传染病。之后两三天,美国撤离了驻武汉总领馆人员。这也表明,大家都知道这个疾病非常危险。


Andrea Mitchell: Just a few months ago when this all started, President Trump was praising President Xi’s response. Now it’s very different. Are they communicating at all?

米歇尔:几个月前,当疫情刚开始流行时,特朗普总统曾称赞习近平主席应对有力,但现在情况大不相同了。他们之间还有什么交流吗?


Ambassador Cui: They have had two phone calls in the last few months, and people at the lower level, lower than the President’s level, have also had their communication. Of course, the two economic teams have been in touch more frequently. And what is even more important is that the scientists of our two countries are working together. Some of the American experts, very well-known professors of public health specialists went to China in very early days. And they also joined the team sent by the WHO to China in February. I think it’s very fortunate our scientists are still working together.

崔大使:过去几个月,中美两国元首曾通过两次电话,双方工作层也保持着沟通。当然,两国的经贸团队交流更频繁些。更重要的是,两国科学家在合作。在疫情暴发初期,一些美国专家,公共卫生领域一些非常著名的教授,就去了中国,还加入了世卫组织2月派往中国的专家组。所以,我们很幸运,我们的科学家还在合作。


Andrea Mitchell: Now, more recently, the US has filed charges against a number of researchers and academics, for it says trying to steal COVID vaccine information from US technology companies or universities. And they say it’s part of a broader pattern of intellectual theft. Can you respond to that?

米歇尔:最近,美国起诉了一些研究人员和学者,指控他们试图从美国科技公司或大学窃取新冠疫苗信息,并称这是中国大规模盗窃美国知识产权的一部分。您能对此作出回应吗?


Ambassador Cui: The problem nowadays is that very often allegations are made without giving any hard evidence. The international community should really cooperate with each other to develop as soon as possible an effective vaccine, which should be shared by the entire world. That’s why President Xi Jinping declared at a special conference of the WHO that if China could develop this vaccine first, we’ll make it global public goods.

崔大使:现在的问题是,美方经常在没有给出确凿证据的情况下进行指控。实际上,当务之急是国际社会应真正加强合作,尽早开发出有效的疫苗,让全世界都能使用。为此,习近平主席在世界卫生大会开幕式上宣布,如果中国能率先研制出疫苗,将把它作为全球公共产品。


Andrea Mitchell: Now although Moderna, one of the leading research companies, that is testing vaccines in phase three, has said that the Chinese government-linked hackers have targeted them to steal data.

米歇尔:美国Moderna公司作为领先的研究型公司之一,其研发的疫苗已进入实验的第三阶段。该公司称,与中国政府有关联的黑客试图窃取他们的数据。


Ambassador Cui: The fact is, as early as in March, some of the American companies even came to see me. They asked for cooperation with their Chinese counterpart to develop drugs or vaccines. I think we should encourage scientists of our two countries and other countries to cooperate. If people want to make allegations, they have to show the evidence. It’s quite possible that hackers from other countries are trying to infiltrate or attack China’s research institutions. This is also possible.

崔大使:事实是,早在今年3月,一些美国公司就来找我。他们请求同中国伙伴合作,研发药物或疫苗。我们应该鼓励两国及其他国家的科学家开展合作。如果有人想提出指控,就必须拿出证据。很可能其他国家的黑客正试图渗透或攻击我们中国的研究机构。这个也是可能的。


Andrea Mitchell: Let’s talk about the Houston consulate, where, as you know, it was the first consulate opened back in 1979 by China in our country. So it’s a very important foundational consulate. And China has responded by closing the US consulate in Chengdu. Do you think that this will escalate?

米歇尔:我们谈谈中国驻休斯敦总领馆吧。您知道,它是1979年中国在我国开设的首个总领馆,所以具有非常重要的奠基性意义。美方将其关闭后,作为回应,中国关闭了美国驻成都总领馆。您认为形势还会进一步升级吗?


Ambassador Cui: We did not start the whole thing. This is very clear. We certainly want to maintain both consulates. As you said, our consulate in Houston was the first Chinese one in America. It was the outcome of Mr. Deng Xiaoping’s visit in early 1979. People just like Texas, like Houston, they like the basketball Rockets, Yao Ming, Texas steak and everything. The consulate has been doing a lot to facilitate exchanges between the two countries, people-to-people contacts, and cultural, sport, educational exchanges, a lot of good things for both countries. So it’s really unfortunate. It’s so bad for the US side to decide to close our consulate in Houston. Based on the principle of reciprocity in diplomacy, we have to respond. But we certainly don’t want to have all this from the very beginning. We certainly don’t want to see any escalation.

崔大使:整件事并非由中方挑起,这非常清楚。我们当然希望两个总领馆都能保留。正如您所说,我们在休斯敦的总领馆是中国在美国的第一个总领馆,它的建立是邓小平先生1979年初访美的成果。人们喜欢得克萨斯,喜欢休斯敦,喜欢火箭队和姚明,喜欢得克萨斯牛排,等等。中国驻休斯敦总领馆做了大量工作,促进两国之间的交流,包括人员往来,文化、体育和教育交流,为两国做了许多好事。很不幸的是,美方要求中国关闭驻休斯敦总领馆,这非常糟糕。根据外交对等原则,我们必须作出回应。但我们最初就不希望这一切发生,当然不愿看到事态进一步升级。


Andrea Mitchell: I do have to ask you, though, about the allegation that on a broader scale, if US officials claim that the Houston consulate was a haven for spying, for intellectual property theft. They say that 80% of espionage cases end in China and 60% of trade secret cases end in China, of all the countries in the world. So they are saying that China is more responsible than any other country by far for trade and intellectual property theft.

米歇尔:我确实不得不就更大规模的指控向您提问。美方官员称,休斯敦总领馆是间谍活动和窃取知识产权的“天堂”。他们说,世界各国80%的间谍案和60%的商业窃密活动同中国相关,中国对贸易和知识产权盗窃活动所负责任比任何其他国家都大。


Ambassador Cui: These allegations against our consulate or any of our diplomatic missions here are totally groundless. People cannot assume other people are doing all these things just because they are exactly doing the same thing in other countries. This is the problem. Some people are doing all these things in other countries. But now they are blaming other countries doing such things. We never do these.

崔大使:这些针对我们驻休斯敦总领馆或我们任何外交机构的指控都毫无根据。有些人不能因为他们自己可能在其他国家做这类事情,就假定其他人也在做同样的事情。这是问题所在。但他们现在指责其他国家做类似事情。我们从来不干此类勾当。


Andrea Mitchell: Let me ask you about our top diplomat, the Secretary of State, whom you know well, because he gave a speech at the Nixon Library which is highly symbolic, since President Nixon opened the door to our opening with the People’s Republic of China. He said some very harsh things, he said if we bend the knees now, our children’s children may be at the mercy of the Chinese Communist Party, whose actions are the primary challenge today in the free world. How do you view this? Is it a direct challenge to the government of China?

米歇尔:让我问您一个有关我们首席外交官,也就是美国国务卿的问题,您应该很了解他。他最近在尼克松图书馆发表了一个演讲,具有很强的象征意义,因为正是尼克松总统开启了美中交往的大门。他说了一些非常强硬的话,称如果我们现在屈服,我们的后代将可能听任中国共产党摆布,中共所作所为是对当今自由世界的首要挑战。您对此怎么看?这是对中国政府的直接挑衅吗?


Ambassador Cui: I have been to the Nixon Library more than once. A few years ago when they had the renovation, they invited me for the reopening. I was there together with Dr. Henry Kissinger and a number of other people. I was very impressed by the Nixon Library. By the way, I have been to a number of presidential libraries here. They are, all of them, are very unique. But I think if we have a close look at the history of our relations since President Nixon’s visit to China, or since Dr. Kissinger visit to China, several things are quite clear:

崔大使:我不只一次去过尼克松图书馆。几年前,尼克松图书馆修缮竣工后,我应邀同基辛格博士及其他一些人共同出席了重新开放仪式。尼克松图书馆给我留下了深刻印象。顺便说一句,我曾参观过好几个美国总统图书馆,感到每一个都非常独特。我认为,如果我们认真回顾尼克松总统访华或基辛格博士访华以来的中美关系历史,有几点是非常清楚的。


First, the normalization of relations between our two countries and the growth of this relationship over the decades has served the interests of both countries and the world very well. It’s quite clear that all of us are still enjoying the positive outcome, the benefits of the growth of this relationship. Nobody can really deny this.

首先,我们两国关系正常化,以及过去几十年来两国关系的发展,符合两国和世界的利益。非常清楚的是,我们所有各方仍在从中美关系的积极发展成果中获益。这一点没人能够否认。


Number two, our two countries, of course, are very different in terms of historical heritage, culture, economic development, and political system, and so on and so forth. These differences will be there, maybe for quite a long time to come. But they should not be seen as barriers for closer relations between us, they should be seen as opportunities, possibilities for mutual learning, for cooperation.

第二,中美在历史、文化、经济发展和政治制度等方面存在较大差异,且这些差异可能会在相当长时间内存在,但不应被视为我们之间建立更密切关系的障碍,它们恰恰为双方相互借鉴与合作提供了机会和可能。


To be fair, over the last few decades, we have learned many things from the United States. There are still things we have not learned from the US, and things I think we should never learn from the United States, such as obsession with global dominance. We are two different countries, but we have to work together. We have to understand we are living in the same world. We are living in this small global village. There are so many global challenges we share. Neither of our countries can really handle all these things all by itself. Nick just mentioned climate change and terrorism, and so many natural disasters. Both peoples have aspirations for a better life. If our two countries can cooperate with each other, it will enable us to meet our people’s needs even better. So this is the choice we have to make, cooperation rather than confrontation.

坦率讲,过去几十年,我们从美国学到了很多东西。有些东西我们没有学,也有些东西我们永远不能向美国学,比如执迷于全球霸权。我们是两个不同的国家,但必须合作。我们生活在同一个世界、同一个小“地球村”里,面临许多共同的全球性挑战,任何国家都无法真正单独应对。例如,尼克刚才提到气候变化,还有恐怖主义和层出不穷的自然灾害。我们两国人民都向往美好生活,如果双方能够合作,就能更好地满足人民的需要。因此,这是我们必须作出的抉择,应当合作而不是对抗。


Andrea Mitchell: A Chinese foreign policy expert in Beijing called Pompeo speech “a new cold war declaration of the United States”. Is that your view that this is a declaration of a new cold war by the Secretary of State?

米歇尔:北京的一位中国外交政策专家称,蓬佩奥的演讲是美国对中国发动“新冷战”的宣言。您认为这是美国国务卿发动“新冷战”的宣言吗?


Ambassador Cui: I don’t know why people like the term “Cold War” so much. The correct lesson we should learn from past history is that such a cold war serves nobody’s real interest. Today we are in the 21st century. Why should we allow history to repeat? Why should we repeat what happened in the last century when we are faced with so many new challenges, global challenges? I don’t think a new cold war would serve anybody’s interests or will give us any solution to the problem.

崔大使:我们应该从过去历史中汲取的教训是,冷战不符合任何一方的真正利益。今天我们身处21世纪,为什么要让历史重演?面对如此多的新的全球性挑战,我们为什么要让上世纪发生的事情重演?“新冷战”不符合任何人的利益,无法为我们提供解决问题的任何方案。


Andrea Mitchell: Is there a way to dial down the rhetoric as long as you speak of global dominance, the President speaks of the “China Flu”? Those are harsh words.

米歇尔:有什么办法能降低调门吗?您刚才提到全球霸权,特朗普总统谈论“中国流感”,这些都是刺耳的话。


Ambassador Cui: It’s certainly wrong to have such stigma. And the virus, as defined by the World Health Organization, is COVID19. The WHO has a rule that the name of any such viruses should not be linked with any particular place, people or ethnic group, or even a particular animal. This is an international rule I think all of us should follow. As for global dominance, China certainly has no intention to seek global dominance, but some people here in this country talk about it so often. It seems to me that there is an obsession with it.

崔大使:进行污名化当然是错误的。这种病毒被世卫组织定名为“COVID-19”(2019冠状病毒)。世卫组织有一个规则,就是任何病毒的名称都不应同任何特定的人、族群或动物相关联。这是国际规则,我们所有人都应该遵守。至于全球霸权,中国当然无意谋求全球霸权。但在美国,人们如此热衷于谈论这个话题,让我觉得似乎对此存在执念。


Andrea Mitchell: How do you interpret global dominance? Is it the phrase “America first”, or what’s your sense of what global dominance means, as you see the United States?

米歇尔:您如何解读“全球霸权”?是指“美国优先”吗?或者,您观察美国时,如何理解“全球霸权”意味着什么?


Ambassador Cui: This is a very good question. Those who are seeking global dominance should give us an interpretation. I don’t think anybody should try to do that.

崔大使:这是一个非常好的问题。那些寻求全球霸权的人应该给我们一个解释。我认为,任何人都不应该试图做(寻求霸权)这件事。


Andrea Mitchell: I want to ask you about the new law in Hong Kong, which the United States and British officials have criticized as well as others. China is now delaying Hong Kong’s election that was to be held on September 6 for a year. Couldn’t the election be held safely despite the pandemic? Why delay the election for a year? And can you assure residents of Hong Kong and the world that there will be elections, democratic elections in Hong Kong?

米歇尔:我想问您一个关于香港新法律的问题,美国、英国以及其他国家官员都对此提出了批评。香港立法会选举原定于9月6日举行,现在中国决定将其推迟一年。难道发生疫情就不能安全举行选举吗?为什么选举要推迟一年?您能否向香港市民和世界人民保证,香港将会举行民主选举?


Ambassador Cui: The decision to delay election in Hong Kong was made by the Hong Kong government, and the reason is the pandemic. Because in recent days, people see a significant resurgence of the confirmed cases. This is very alarming. The Hong Kong SAR government decided that if the election goes as planned, the risk, the danger of the pandemic spreading even wider will be very serious. Actually in other parts of the world, maybe dozens of countries or regions have decided to somehow postpone their elections or events like this.

崔大使:推迟香港立法会选举的决定是由香港特区政府作出的,原因就是疫情。近些天,人们看到香港疫情反弹十分严重,形势令人担忧。香港特区政府认为,如果按期举行选举,存在疫情进一步扩散的重大风险。实际上,在世界其他地方,也有几十个国家或地区决定以某种方式推迟选举或类似活动。


As for the new law, the National Security Law in Hong Kong, by definition, it is about national security. Actually, Hong Kong should have enacted its own law for national security as provided for by the Basic Law of Hong Kong. But 23 years have passed since Hong Kong returned to China, and the Law of National Security is still not there. Its absence has led to a lot of serious consequences. People see rising violence in Hong Kong. The city is quite destabilized. People feel it’s no longer a very safe place to live or do business. And of course, the absence of this law has hurt China’s national security interests, and also hurt the safety and security of the people both in the mainland and in Hong Kong of China. It is also hurting the interests of Hong Kong’s international economic partners.

至于香港的新法律,也就是香港国安法,顾名思义,是关于国家安全的法律。实际上,根据香港特别行政区基本法,香港本应自行制定国安法。香港回归祖国23年来,国安法一直没有出台,这一空白已经导致许多严重后果。人们看到香港的暴力事件不断上升,城市稳定受到极大破坏。人们感到香港不再是一个适合居住或经商的安全之地。缺少这一法律损害中国的国家安全利益,损害中国内地和香港民众的安全,以及香港的国际经济伙伴的利益。


In a sense, we were forced to enact this law, so that as there’s better guarantee for Hong Kong’s stability. So the rising violence in Hong Kong could be stopped. Everybody could have a safer environment, a safer place to live. Hong Kong could continue to be an international financial, trading and transportation center. And the system, the policy of “One Country Two Systems” will continue.

在某种意义上,我们是被迫制定这一法律,这样香港的稳定能有更好的保障,可以更有效制止不断上升的暴力,让每个人都拥有更安全的环境,有更安全的地方居住,使香港可以继续作为国际金融、贸易和交通运输中心正常运转,继续执行“一国两制”政策。


Andrea Mitchell: Of course, the Hong Kong government that delayed the election is hardly independent from Beijing. The people who are invested in democracy in Hong Kong want the election and the people who want a stable economic base in Hong Kong around the world want elections and a stable democracy. Today China has issued arrest warrants for six pro-democracy activists, including one who was an American citizen. And of course the well-known Nathan Law, who is already in the UK. What actions were they taking that threatened the stability in Hong Kong?

米歇尔:香港政府很难独立于北京作出推迟选举的决定。在香港,为民主进行了投入的人们想要选举;世界各地希望香港有稳定经济基础的人,也想要选举和稳定的民主。今天中国对六位民主人士发出了逮捕令,其中一位是美国公民,还有著名的Nathan Law(罗冠聪),他已经在英国了。他们采取了哪些威胁香港稳定的行动?


Ambassador Cui: I don’t think that people should make the distinction between what they call “democracy” and “anti-democracy”. Actually all these law enforcement actions are taken according to the law. If anyone violates the law, they should be punished. That’s it. It doesn’t matter what kind of political views they might have. Nobody should violate the law.

崔大使:不应该进行所谓“民主”和“反民主”的区分。实际上,所有这些执法行动都是依法进行的。任何人违反了法律都应该受到惩罚,事情就是这样。不管有什么样的政治观点,谁都不应该违反法律。


Andrea Mitchell: I want to ask you about TikTok. The President was talking about banning it. Now it is apparently possibly going to be purchased by Microsoft, the American entity of TikTok. Given China’s law and China’s ability, Beijing’s ability to demand that Chinese corporations can retrieve data from any of these companies, can you understand why President Trump and the US government want to make sure that if TikTok operates here in the US, Beijing will not be able to retrieve and get any data from US citizens?

米歇尔:我想问个有关TikTok的问题。特朗普总统说要禁止它,现在它很可能被微软收购。根据中国的法律和能力,北京可以要求从任何这样的中国公司获取数据信息。基于此,您能理解为什么特朗普总统和美国政府要确保TikTok在美国运营时北京不能获取任何有关美国公民的数据信息吗?


Ambassador Cui: I don’t think there’s an evidence that any company is giving such information to the Chinese government. People make these allegations, but they never show any evidence. Very often we hear complaints here that we don’t give a level playing field to American companies. But more and more, I believe we should complain Chinese companies are not having a level playing field here. There is such a degree of political intervention, government intervention into the market. There’s such a discrimination against Chinese company. These companies are just private companies.

崔大使:没有证据表明,任何公司向中国政府提供了这样的信息。有人进行这样的指责,但从来没有给出任何证据。我们在这儿经常听到有人抱怨中国没有给美国公司提供公平竞争环境。但我越来越深信,我们更应该抱怨中国企业在美国没有公平竞争环境。这里的政治干预、政府对市场的介入程度是如此之高,对中国企业的歧视是如此之深。而这些公司不过是民营企业。


It’s not fair to make such allegations without giving any evidence and to accuse China of not giving American companies a level playing field while at the same time they themselves are denying Chinese companies such a level playing field. This is extremely unfair.

美方一方面毫无根据地进行指控,指责中国没有给美国企业提供平等竞争环境,另一方面自己拒绝为中国公司提供公平竞争环境,这种做法极其不公平。


Andrea Mitchell: Despite all these tensions, you alluded to the fact that there are still conversations at lower levels on economic issues. Is the trade deal going to go forward? Do you still see that as in China’s interests and obviously, we have to see whether it is still in the US interest. Would you think that is now also in peril?

米歇尔:尽管双方关系出现紧张,您提到,双方仍在工作层面就经济问题保持着对话。美中经贸协议还会继续下去吗?您仍然认为该协议符合中方利益吗?显然,美方不得不衡量该协议是否仍然符合自身利益。您认为这个协议现在也处境危险吗?


Ambassador Cui: We signed the phase one trade deal in January. As far as I know, the two economic teams have been in contact with each other at various levels. And we are making good progress. For instance, what China committed to do in the first four months for the implementation of this trade agreement. We agreed to do 50 items. We have done all of them in the last four months. And we are still purchasing American products, including agricultural products. The pandemic is hindering the normal trade flows. This is also the reality. But we are doing our best to overcome the current difficulties to keep the trade flow, and to implement this trade agreement as effectively as possible.

崔大使:今年1月中美签署第一阶段经贸协议后,双方经贸团队一直在不同级别上保持着沟通,协议执行取得积极进展。比如,中方承诺在执行协议的头4个月内做的50项工作已全部完成。我们还在继续购买美国农产品等商品。疫情影响了正常的贸易往来,这也是现实。中方正在尽最大努力克服当前困难,保持贸易流通,尽可能有效执行协议。


Andrea Mitchell: And I want to ask you about military tensions. The US says, China is being aggressive by claiming areas in the South China Sea that are international waters, or do you see the US and China moving more closely to some kind of a military confrontation?

米歇尔:我想提一个关于军事紧张的问题。美方称,中方在南海主张权益的区域是国际海域,这是侵略性行径。您认为美中是否正越来越接近发生某种形式的军事冲突?


Ambassador Cui: There’s a long history behind the situation in the South China Sea. Before the 1970s or 1960s, actually there was no territorial dispute in the region. And some of the claimant countries put forward that claim starting from the 1960s or 1970s. We have our historical claim and we have strong historical and legal support for our claims, but still we are ready to negotiate with other countries concerned for a peaceful solution to the disputes.

崔大使:南海形势有很长的历史轨迹。实际上,上世纪70或60年代前,这个地区不存在领土争议。但从上世纪60或70年代开始,一些国家提出主权声索。南海诸岛自古以来就是中国的领土,中方对此有充分的历史和法理依据。尽管如此,我们仍愿与其他相关国家通过协商寻求和平解决争端的办法。


That’s why we are working with the ASEAN countries over the years. I myself worked for quite a few years with the ASEAN countries on drawing up the Declaration of Conduct for the parties concerned. Now we are working on the code of conduct between China and ASEAN countries, and we are making good progress. We always believe that any territorial disputes shall be resolved through negotiations by the parties directly concerned. And we certainly aim to have a diplomatic solution, a negotiated solution. This is our commitment. It’s not changing.

这些年来,我们一直同东盟国家就此共同努力。我本人曾与东盟国家伙伴合作多年,参与起草《南海各方行为宣言》。现在中方正同东盟国家一道制定《南海行为准则》,并已取得积极进展。我们始终相信,任何领土争端均应通过有关直接当事方谈判协商解决,致力于寻求外交解决办法。这是我们的承诺,没有改变。


In the meantime, we should really work together to maintain stability of the region, and all of these sea lanes are extremely important for the Chinese economy. A large portion of our imports and exports have to go through these sea lanes. So we really have high stakes in the safety and security of navigation. So if these things are left to the countries concerned to work out, the situation would be much better. The problem is the intensifying US military activities in the region. The US is sending more and more warships, military airplanes more frequently to the region. This is really raising the risks of any conflicts or confrontation.

同时,我们确实应该共同努力维护地区稳定。这里的所有航道对中国经济都极其重要,我们的大量进出口贸易都必须经过这些航道,所以在确保航行安全方面有重大利益。如果这些问题由地区有关国家自行解决,形势将好得多。问题在于,美国在南海的军事活动不断加剧,派遣越来越多的舰机,活动越来越频密,这正在增加发生摩擦和冲突的风险。