双语资料:驻加拿大大使卢沙野接受媒体集体采访实录(上)
发布时间:2019年02月18日
发布人:nanyuzi  

驻加拿大大使卢沙野接受媒体集体采访实录(上)

Transcript of Chinese Ambassador to Canada Lu Shaye’s Press Conference with Chinese and Foreign Media – 1

 

2019年1月18日

January 18, 2019

 

卢大使:女士们,先生们,各位媒体朋友们,大家好!很高兴在使馆接待大家。我每年都有在年底或者年初同加拿大媒体界朋友聚会的传统。2017年年底的聚会是在我的官邸,我们就一系列问题进行了交流。2018年年底我也想跟大家见面。但是12月1日发生了华为公司高管孟晚舟女士被加方扣押的事件,我就集中精力在处理这件事,顾不上与大家聚会。后来又发生了一些事,大家精力也都集中在那些事上,使馆也在媒体上发表过一些表态。今天我们终于有机会坐在一起,相信大家有很多问题要向我提问。

Ambassador Lu Shaye: Ladies and gentlemen, members of the media, good afternoon. It’s my pleasure to host all of you today at the Chinese Embassy in Canada. It seems to be an annual tradition for me to meet with the Canadian media at the beginning or the end of each year. I remember last time we met at the end of 2017 at my residence. We exchanged views on a wide range of issues. I originally intended to meet with all of you at some time in 2018, but as we all know, on December 1 there was the detention of Ms. Meng Wanzhou. I have been very busy and preoccupied with handling this issue. So it has been delayed. Following her detention, there have been other issues as well as new developments. As you can see, Chinese Embassy has released statements on these issues on our website. Today, I am glad that we have the opportunity to meet with each other in person and I am sure that you must have lots of questions to ask.

 

今天正好也是一个机会,向大家推荐新任中国驻加使馆新闻参赞和发言人张海涛先生。杨云东参赞已在加工作5年多,即将离任。他在这5年多的时间里工作非常勤奋、敬业,同媒体界的朋友结下了很好的友谊和合作关系。我相信张海涛参赞也会继续同大家密切交往,开展合作,也希望媒体界的朋友们继续给予他支持。现在请大家提问。

Today, it is also a good opportunity for me to introduce to you a new member of our team. Mr. Zhang Haitao, Counsellor and spokesperson of Chinese Embassy. His predecessor Mr. Yang Yundong, who has been working here diligently for the past 5 years and maintaining good working relationships with Canadian media. Mr. Yang is leaving Canada soon. I believe Mr. Zhang will continue to carry out frequent exchanges and cooperation with you. We look forward to your support. Now I will open the floor to questions.

 

《多伦多星报》:我希望了解,在孟晚舟女士被拘押事件上中国为什么没有将反对声音主要指向美国?是美国指控孟女士涉嫌欺诈。加政府表示加必须遵守《加美引渡条约》,中国却为什么相信加总理对法院可以施加影响?

Toronto Star: Ambassador, I would like to know why has China not directed its main objections to the arrest of Ms. Meng Wanzhou at the United States, which is the country charging Ms. Meng abroad? Does China believe that the Canadian Prime Minister has any influence over the Canadian court when the Canadian government says it must follow the Extradition Treaty between Canada and the U.S.?

 

卢大使:对于加拿大在美国的要求之下扣押孟晚舟女士,我们不仅向加方提出交涉,也向美方提出了交涉,不存在矛头主要指向谁的问题。你有这个感觉可能是因为孟晚舟女士现在被扣押在加而不是美。至于有人说中方认为特鲁多总理或加拿大政府对加法院有影响力,这不是中方说的,这是加拿大的法律以及《加美引渡条约》有关条款显示出来的程序。毕竟现在加拿大是由自由党政府执政,作为一起外交事件,中国政府只能找一个主权国家的政府进行交涉。

Ambassador Lu Shaye: Based on the U.S. request to Canada on the arrest of Ms. Meng, we not only lodged representations with the Canadian side, but also with the U.S. side. There is no issue of who do we lodged the representations mainly with. Maybe you feel this way is because that Ms. Meng now is currently detained in Canada, not in the U.S. As for your second question about the belief by some Chinese that the Canadian Prime Minister and the Canadian government have influence on Canadian court, this is not a statement made by the Chinese side. It is actually implied and indicated by relevant Canadian laws and the Extradition Treaty between Canada and the U.S. After all, Canada is currently run by Liberal Government. As the government of Canada, it is of course the main channel of our communication.

 

《环球邮报》:您是否能说明中方逮捕加公民康明凯和斯帕沃尔是对加方逮捕孟晚舟女士的报复,或者中方在释放上述二人之前加方要先释放孟女士?您是否能说明去年12月1日孟女士被拘捕以来,中方拘捕了多少加公民?

The Globe and Mail: Can you state whether the arrest of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor are retaliations or reprisals for the arrest of Ms. Meng that you want her release before those two gentlemen be released? Are you able to say how many Canadians have been detained in China since December 1 when Ms. Meng was detained in Canada?

 

卢大使:关于“中方对两名加公民采取强制措施是对加方逮捕孟晚舟女士的报复”的言论,这不是中方说的,而是加媒体说的。我本人无论是对媒体还是在双边场合,从来没有说过这样的话。恰恰相反,中方认为这是性质完全不同的两件事。孟晚舟女士没有违反任何加拿大法律就被加拘捕,而两名加公民是因为从事了危害中国国家安全的活动而被中方采取强制措施。孟女士是无辜的,而从现在的报道看,两名被拘加公民是受法律指控的。至于孟女士被拘捕以来,中方到底抓了多少加拿大人,我没有数字。但我从加方报道中得知,有加方官员称,目前在中国有200多名加公民被拘押,同时在美国有900多名加公民被拘押。中国是一个法制国家,不会随便抓人。任何国家的公民到了中国,只要遵守中国法律,他们的旅行安全是有保证的。

Ambassador Lu: As for the statement that the compulsory measures taken against the two Canadian nationals are reprisals against the detention of Ms. Meng, it is not made by the Chinese side, rather these remarks are made by the Canadian media. I have never made any statement like this in any occasion. On the other hand, I believe these are two different matters of very different nature. The detention of Ms. Meng is groundless because she did not violate any Canadian law. But the detention of two Canadian nationals was due to suspicion of their engagement of activities that endanger Chinese national security. Ms. Meng is innocent. But based on the relevant information as reported so far, China does have legal charges against these two Canadian nationals. Since the arrest of Ms. Meng, as for how many Canadians have been detained in China, I don't have the specific number. According to Canadian media reports, there are over 200 Canadian nationals detained in China. But there are 900 Canadians detained in the U.S. China is a country based on the rule of law. China will not arbitrarily detain or arrest anyone. Any nationals around the world, as they abide by Chinese laws and regulations, their safety and security in China can be assured.

 

加拿大电视台:孟晚舟事件发生以来,您曾用很强硬的语言将加方反应比作“白人至上论”,中方认为应采取什么措施解决这个日益恶化的外交争端?这对两国贸易关系会造成什么影响?特鲁多总理曾访问北京,对开展双边自贸谈判充满希望。但目前谈判停滞了,是否要等孟案解决后才能开始?

CTV: Ambassador, you have used very strong languages since this dispute began, comparing Canada’s reaction as “white supremacy”. I was wondering what measures China think Canada can take to deescalate and resolve the ongoing diplomatic disputes? Secondly, what effect does this have on our trade relationships? When our Prime Minister was in Beijing, he offered to begin the free trade talks or to initiate it to some point. Are these talks suspended? Or will it be pending until the resolution of the Meng Case?

 

卢大使:我注意到,加媒体对我上周发表的文章反应很大,主要是针对我使用了“白人至上论”这个词汇。请你们注意,我用这个词汇的时候不是以一种推崇、赞扬的口吻,而是以批判的口吻,而且我并非指责加整个社会,而是指某些人。我批评某些人的时候是有根据的,你们可以从我的文章里一条一条的看,哪一件不能印证某些人是具有这种过时思维的?我也知道加政府和社会各界都坚决反对“白人至上论”,但反对不意味着加社会不存在这个问题。有些人就是根深蒂固地存在着这种陈腐思想,一旦外部环境、条件发生变化,他们就会不知不觉地流露出来。前不久,加公共安全部长古德尔在里贾纳大学的讲话里明确指出,“白人至上论”是当前加社会的一个主要关切。

Ambassador Lu: The Canadian media have very strong reaction to my article published last week, probably mainly due to some of the expression I used in the article including the “white supremacy”. Please note that I used this kind of expression in a critical tone, not the other way around. And I was not accusing the entire Canadian society but rather some people in the society. I do have evidence to support my arguments. As you can see from the article, there are very clearly explained points supporting this view that some people still remain the outdated mindset. I understand that the Canadian government and the Canadian society resolutely oppose “white supremacy”. But this kind of opposition does not mean that it does not exist in Canada. Some people do have deep-rooted views or values of “white supremacy”. When the external environment or condition changes, these views or values will be revealed. Recently, I noticed the remarks by Mr. Ralph Goodale, Canada’s Minister of Public Safety in the University of Regina that “white supremacy” is indeed a concern of Canada.

 

至于当前中加两国发生的一系列不愉快的事情会不会对双边自贸进程产生影响,我认为这是必然的。说实话,中加双方本来对推动自贸进程都持积极态度,而且进行了四轮探索性讨论,解决了大部分分歧。但后来出现了一系列新的因素,对该进程造成了干扰和破坏,这些因素都不是中方造成的。中加彼此是重要的贸易伙伴,应该说在贸易领域中国对加拿大的重要性比加拿大对中国的重要性更大一些。根据最新统计,2018年两国贸易额有望突破1000亿加元。加对中国出口的增速远远高于从中国进口的增速。加政府一直讲要推进贸易多元化战略,中国作为世界第二大经济体,是加贸易多元化战略的一个主要方向。中国政府一向重视同加拿大的经贸关系,会一如既往地推进两国经贸合作。如果条件成熟,我们也愿意继续推进双边自贸进程。

As whether the recent unpleasant developments in Canada-China relationship have impacted the bilateral trade relations, the answer is yes indeed. Both sides have been very active pushing forward the free trade talks. We have already conducted 4 rounds of exploratory discussions, and a lot of differences have already been resolved. But due to some new factors emerged recently, this process has been affected. But this is not caused by China. China and Canada are important trading partners to each other. China plays a much larger role in Canada’s foreign trade than Canada does in China’s foreign trade. It can be predicted that the bilateral trade volume between China and Canada in 2018 would exceed 100 billion Canadian dollars. Canada’s exports to China are growing at faster pace than its imports from China. The Canadian government has been working to implement a trade diversification strategy, and China can be an important partner in that process. The Chinese government always values its economic and trade relations with Canada and we will continue to enhance the cooperation. When the conditions are ripe, we would like to continue the free trade talks.

 

中央电视台:我来加3年多有一个特别深刻的感受:中国人对加拿大人有非常良好的印象,在中国媒体上几乎看不到对加拿大的负面报道。但我来到加之后发现加某些主流媒体长期罔顾事实地诋毁、批评中国。对这种反差您怎么看?

CCTV: I have been living in Canada for 3 years by now. I know that Chinese people have very positive impression of Canada. In Chinese media, there is rarely any negative reports about Canada. However, by sharp contrast, the Canadian media seems to be very critical of China as there are lots of criticism against China. What’s your comment?

 

卢大使:不只你有这种感觉,我也有这种感觉。来加之前,我对加拿大的印象非常好。我的印象来自于哪呢?来自于中国媒体的报道。事实上中国媒体对加拿大进行了广泛、客观、全面的报道,有时候甚至是美化。当我来加后读到加媒体对中国的报道时,有一个突出的感受就是相关报道同我对中国的了解和认识相差很远。2017年4月,我在多伦多发表了到任后的第一次对外演讲,其间公开表达了我的这一观点,即加媒体没有客观、公正地报道中国。我思考了其中的原因,可能有以下几方面:

Ambassador Lu: You are not alone for this impression. I feel the same way. Before I came to Canada, I also had very good impression of Canada, which mainly came from Chinese media’s reports. Actually, Chinese media has very just, fair and comprehensive reports and coverage of Canada, some of which are even prettified. But after I arrived at Canada, I began to read Canadian reports of China and I felt that lots of them were quite different from the China I usually know. I remember that my very first public speech in Canada was made in April, 2017 in Toronto. During the speech, I shared my view with the audiences about Canadian media’s unjust and unfair reports of China. I also began to think about the possible reasons behind that. I believe that there could be following reasons if I am right.

 

一是加媒体过度地解读中国负面的东西。任何国家都有问题、缺点和不足,但决定这个国家形象和发展方向的是主流的东西。如果总是报道中国负面东西的话,给加民众的印象就是中国是一个很负面的国家。某个问题在中国是一个非常局部、微小的问题,但通过媒体被无限放大,加民众认为这就代表了中国的全部。甚至有时候我看到一些媒体报道,即使谈及中国正面的东西也使用负面的、调侃的语调和笔调。

First, Canadian media tries to focus more on the negative side of China. No country is immune from problems or weaknesses. But it is the overarching voice that determines the image of a country. If the Canadian media keeps on reporting about the negative aspects of China, then inevitably it will give the general Canadian public the impression that China is a very negative country. Even if the matter itself is small in nature, when it is magnified through the Canadian media, it can sound very alarming. Even I read some Canadian news reports of China which are positive in general, the tone seems to be negative as sometimes it is in a mocking way.

 

二是某些媒体人脑子里有一种固有观念,认为中国不是一个西方民主国家,中国的所有东西特别是政治体制、意识形态上的东西一定是不正确的。不正确的东西怎么会产生好的结果呢?因此在报道中国的时候,如果中国的现实同他们脑子里所固有的观念不一致,他们在报道时就会修改这个现实,以便同他们的固有观念相一致。事实上,很多加拿大人,当他们去过中国以后就会问这样一个问题,为什么我在看加媒体报道时没有获得中国的真实信息。由于媒体人脑子里对中国有一些固有的、陈腐的观念,因此在价值判断上就存在双重标准。这就是我在上周所发表的文章里讲的核心意思,即西方国家做的事情就是好的,中国做相同的事情就是错的。长期受这种舆论报道的影响,难怪很多加民众对中国有不好的印象或持批评态度,这种舆论环境也不利于两国开展友好合作。希望加媒体经常到中国实地参观、考察,也可以多派一些常驻记者到中国。当然,前提是你们要把你们所看到的东西,如实地向加民众传递。

Secondly, some people in the Canadian media seem to have intrinsic views that China is not a western democracy, and China’s political system and China’s doctrines and mentalities are very different. And these differences are not right. With these differences, no good outcome will come of it. Some of the media will modify facts in order to make their report consistent with their preconceived ideas and prejudices. Actually, a lot of Canadians after visiting China will ask themselves why the Canadian media reports never present a full picture of what China really is. Because some media people have such outdated views, they will use double standards in their reports. The core message conveyed in my article last week is that, anything as long as done by western countries is right, but when the same thing done by China is not right. Influenced by these negative reports in a long run, it is not surprising that a lot of Canadians have a rather negative view about China. And this kind of media atmosphere is not conducive to the development of our bilateral relations. Therefore, I hope more people from the Canadian media could pay more visits to China and send more permanent journalists to China to report China in an objective way.

 

新时代电视台:请问大使,最近发生的孟晚舟案、加中外交风波等会对在加华人有什么影响?加中两国的想法、立场多有不同,您对生活在加拿大的华人有什么建议?

Fairchild TV: Given the recent development between China and Canada, what do you think would be the impacts on the Chinese living in Canada? What is your advice to these Chinese considering the differences between our two countries?

 

卢大使:在加拿大生活的很多华人,他们的祖籍国是中国,国籍国是加拿大。我们希望华人在加拿大生活得好,事业工作发展顺利,也希望在加华侨华人能够充当中加友好的纽带,为促进两国友好交往和合作发挥你们的作用,甚至可以为缓解当前两国关系的紧张发挥积极作用。当然,加是多元文化社会,相信华侨华人在这里的生活不会受到太多影响。

Ambassador Lu: Indeed, there is a large Chinese community in Canada and they are of Chinese origin and they may hold Canadian passports. So it is very regrettable that so many negative events happened recently, which do have some impacts on Chinese living in Canada. I hope that the Chinese-Canadians here in Canada could live a good life and have a good career and deal with these issues in an appropriate way. We hope that these Chinese-Canadians could serve as a bridge connecting China and Canada, and contribute to the bilateral exchanges and cooperation of both countries. And even they can play an active role in trying to ease the current tensions between China and Canada. Canada is such a diverse and multicultural country. I think these Chinese-Canadians would not be significantly affected.

 

加通社:大使先生,很多加民众都在谈论加中两国司法体制的不同,您能否向加民众解释中方的司法体制?您认为中方需要多长时间才会就康明凯和斯帕沃尔是否违反中国法律进行裁定以及审判?此外,孟晚舟案在加得到公开庭审,目前她被保释并居住在家。但自从上述两名加公民在华被拘后,加方对二人的领事探视次数十分有限,二人也未再公开露面。对于这种不同,您有什么评论?

Canadian Press: Could you explain to Canadians about the justice system of China as many Canadian people are talking about the differences? How long do you think Chinese officials will decide and charge Michael Spavor and Michael Kovrig whether they violate Chinese law? Ms. Meng had an open public hearing in Canada and is on bail to stay at home. But there are few consular visits for these two Canadians and they have not appeared again in the public since their arrest. How do you explain these differences?

 

卢大使:中加两国社会制度不同,司法体制当然也有不同之处。但双方都表明各自国家是法治国家。中加司法体制有不同之处,也有相同之处。比如,加拿大坚持司法独立,中国也是,中国司法机关独立行使权力。加政府不能干预司法,中国行政机关也不能干预司法机关办案。加拿大讲究程序合法,中国同样也讲究程序合法。但孟晚舟案和两名加公民被拘是两个性质不同的案子,因此处理起来两国就有所不同。对于两名被采取强制措施的加公民,中方指控他们涉嫌危害中国国家安全,这不同于一般的刑事案件,中方需要进一步深入调查。所以,不能因中方对两名加公民采取的司法措施不同于加方对孟晚舟采取的司法措施就指责中方做法不对。中方是按照国际惯例和通行作法对待两名加公民。事实上,中方现在对两名加公民采取的、你们认为所谓不正常的司法措施,在美国等西方国家处理类似案件时,都有类似做法。

Ambassador Lu: Canada and China have two different social systems and of course, there are differences in our judicial systems. But both countries make it clear that they enjoy the rule of law. While there are differences in our judicial systems, there are also similarities. For example, Canada pursuits the judicial independence, and it is the same in China that the judicial courts are also independent. The Canadian government cannot interfere with the courts, the same is true with China. Canada puts a lot of emphasis on due process, the same can be also said in China. But the two cases you mentioned are different in nature, so the handling of these two cases is different. As for the two Canadian citizens, they were taken compulsory measures in China in accordance with law for involvement in activities that endanger China’s national security, which is different from regular criminal cases and requires further investigation. You cannot criticize China of any wrongdoing simply based on how these two very different cases are handled differently in Canada and China. China acts in accordance with the international common practices. Although you regard the measures taken by China to the two Canadian citizens as irregular, actually there are similar practices in many other countries. I mean western countries such as the U.S.

 

《华尔街日报》:在当前形势下,您是否担心加拿大加入美国、澳大利亚、新西兰禁止华为参与5G项目?如果加方禁止华为设备会有什么后果?对加中关系会有什么影响?

The Wall Street Journal: Ambassador, Canada is conducting security review to the telecommunication networks, do you not have any concern that this diplomatic row between China and Canada could sway Canada to the side of the U.S., Australia and New Zealand, and decide to not allow equipment from Huawei Technologies to be used in 5G networks. And as a follow up, if Canada decides to go this route and not allow Huawei’s equipment in Canada, will there be any repercussion or how would that affect China-Canada relationship?

 

卢大使:我一直担心加拿大会作出与美国、澳大利亚、新西兰相同的决定,我认为这种决定肯定是不公正的,因为他们的指控没有依据。我长时间跟踪这方面的报道,“五眼联盟”国家指控华为设备对他们的国家安全造成威胁,但从没有拿出证据。上个月,华为轮值董事长在对记者发表谈话时也感到很冤枉,他说美国都没用过华为设备,怎么知道华为对美国国家安全造成威胁?他说,如果美国有证据,哪怕不愿给华为看,也可以给有关国家及电信运营商看。西方国家的法律最讲究证据,为什么在这个问题上却不那么讲究证据。这让我怀疑有关指控是别有用心的。事实上,有的国家并非出于国家安全、而是出于其他考虑才提出禁止使用华为设备。仅仅建立在猜测基础上的指控是站不住脚的,也是不能长久的。我们希望加政府和有关部门能够做出明智的选择。至于如果加政府禁止华为参与5G项目会有什么后果,我不知道,但我相信肯定会有后果。

Ambassador Lu: I always have concerns that Canada may make the same decision as the U.S., Australia and New Zealand did. And I believe such decisions are not fair because their accusations are groundless. I have been following reports about it for a long time. The Five Eyes alliance countries have accused Huawei of national security threat, but they have never shown any evidence. Last month in an interview the Huawei rotating CEO complained about being treated unjustly, and he said the U.S. has not even used Huawei’s equipment, how do they know that it poses a threat to American's national security? He also said that if the U.S. has any evidence, they can show the evidence to other countries and telecommunication companies, even if they will not show the evidence to Huawei. The culture of western countries’ legal system puts a lot of emphasis on evidence, why don’t you put emphasis on evidence in this case? That is why I suspect the relevant accusations have ulterior motives. Actually some countries propose the idea of banning Huawei equipment not out of concerns for national security, but rather out of other motives. The accusation simply based on surmises cannot be sustained. We hope that the Canadian government and the relevant authorities could make wise decision on this issue. As for the consequences of banning Huawei from 5G network, I am not sure yet what kind of consequences will be, but I surely believe there will be consequences.